Responsible Tech Unicorns: Practitioners working to build a better tech future
Panel conversation with Dr. Ellie Sakhaee (Sr. Prog. Manager, Responsible AI @ Microsoft), Danise Olague (Senior Program Manager, Accessibility & Product Inclusion at Yahoo), and Aimee Louise Bataclan (Communications Manager at Partnership on AI) with moderator Veronica Irwin (San Francisco Examiner reporter).
This conversation took place at All Tech Is Human’s Responsible Tech University Summit.
Dr. Ellie Sakhaee is a Senior Program Manager, Responsible AI @ Microsoft. Sakhaee was also an Innovation Fellow at TechCongress working on developing public policy around Responsible Tech. Prior to her fellowship, she was a Lead Machine Learning Scientist at Samsung, where she led a team on developing AI algorithms for Autonomous Driving. Dr. Sakhaee holds a PhD in Computer Science, an MBA degree, and a Master’s degree in Computer Engineering. Her areas of interest include Responsible AI, Autonomous Vehicles, and Consumer Protection.
Aimee Bataclan (TWITTER) is the Senior Communications Manager at Partnership on AI (PAI), a non-profit partnership of academic, civil society, industry, and media organizations creating solutions so that AI advances positive outcomes for people and society. In her role, she leads communications efforts to engage PAI’s robust community of stakeholders on its initiatives, research, and mission. Aimee has over a decade of experience transforming technical, scientific, and otherwise complex topics into impactful storytelling opportunities. In previous roles, she oversaw editorial strategy, content marketing, digital advocacy campaigns, and creative content development for corporate sustainability and climate change nonprofits. She began her career at public relations agencies, where she worked with clients spanning clean energy, women's health, and entertainment. Originally from Manila, Philippines, Aimee holds a Bachelor’s of Arts in Mass Communications and Political Economy from the University of California, Berkeley.
Danise Olague is a strategic organizational change-agent, learning experience designer, facilitator and diversity & inclusion advocate. With over 11 years of experience in teaching, program management, and diversity and inclusion work, Danise brings her lived experience as a woman of color with low vision to her multifaceted career as a classroom teacher, instructional designer, diversity leader and accessibility educator. Danise is a Senior Program Manager for Yahoo’s Accessibility team which combines the power of education, product development & design, with advocacy work to ensure that all of our products, platforms, services and content are accessible to all, including people with disabilities. Danise holds a B.A. in Ethnic Studies from the University of California, Berkeley, a Multiple Subject Teaching Credential from San Francisco State University and a MA. in Policy, Organizational Change, and Leadership from Stanford University’s Graduate School of Education.
Veronica Irwin is a professional storyteller and reporter based in the San Francisco Bay Area. Veronica has written for SF Weekly, The Nation, Ms. Magazine, The Daily Californian, The Quietus, Hunnypot Unlimited, The Berkeley B-Side, and more. Veronica is currently on staff as a tech reporter at the San Francisco Examiner, covering the local tech industry in the techiest city in the country.
NOTES - Francesca Cavuoti / Andy McAdams
Veronica’s article on Responsible Tech Unicorns: sfexaminer.com/news/sfs-next-big-unicorns-arent-startups-theyre-people/
Start out with intros
Ellie - Senior program manager at MS in Ethical AI; Fellow at Tech Congress; PhD in computer science and an MBA
Aimee - Sr Comms Manager for Partnership on AI; Previously worked on PR in Tech companies, and worked in the climate space
Danise - Sr Program Manager for Accessibility and Product Inclusion team at Yahoo; BA in Ethnic Studies, Certificate, and MBA from Stanford
Context of panel - The “Responsible Tech Unicorns” was a term Veronica heard David use. Many people in the space, many people don’t have a traditional technology background and the RT field is becoming more multi-disciplinary
Q: What kind of academic (or how do you explain your background) do you need to have to be a RT Unicorn?
Danise - What skills does someone need? Someone can come into this field with a diverse set of academic backgrounds. The skills that were integral were Critical Thinking - studies in Ethnic Studies were cross disciplinary on race, society and oppression. How can we innovate? How can we be creative to solve problems? The history and how we’ve arrived where we are is also really valuable to understand, and understanding the Power and Privilege of the past.
Aimee - Bachelors in Comm and Political Economy; Even with a non-traditional background and only a single degree you can still be in the space. Echoes the need for critical thinking. Uncovering problematic ways that tech works is valuable. Coming at it from a policy perspective is also super valuable because everything is tech nowadays. So multidisciplinary backgrounds are good, because there’s so much research to be done
Ellie - Multidisciplinary field today and it will be more important in the future - like Philosophy and Social Sciences. How technologies will affect humanity? Just get an idea of what’s out there -- start with getting some basics on AI/ML (like Coursera or other MOOC). One skill is learning to learn - knowing how to quickly grasp new topics and concepts is going to be very helpful. With a tech background, had to quickly learn about how policy works to fill the gap.
Q: How did you get into Responsible Tech?
Aimee - Recently listened to a podcast by Jonathan Fields who wrote the “Sparked” book about what really energizes you. It’s important to see the different intersections of different fields, like working on Climate -- and we know that Climate affects health, equality, environment, etc. There are all these systems with all these different impacts, and how I gout interested
Ellie - Researcher and do a lot of research -- do a lot in a very narrow view, like working on just computer vision in autonomous driving and was working with non-profit putting forth a bill about climate change. Get her thinking about how she can take her technical background to public policy to do more of this kind of thing. Our lawmakers don’t have a lot of technical people on their staff and aren’t able to keep up with the rapid pace. Worked at TechCongress to connect tech people with the lawmakers. Seeing how impactful this could be, started to looking at how to implement a lot of these principles to make products responsible, safe and reliable
Danise - Started as a teacher; as an undergrad she was a student activist and knew she wanted to be a teacher and got credential right after graduation. Expected to be a teacher forever - was a teacher for about 6-7 years. Had the opportunity to pivot into EdTech and compared to all the tech she was touching. Interned at Common Sense Media during grad school, and then worked at EdTech company, and thought about how great it would be to help make the products instead of scrambling to adjust. Totally self-taught and had no technical background, and so she taught herself all about UX design and how to build products. Didn’t realize that Accessibility was a thing until she went to a conference and heard someone talking about it. There wasn’t a lightbulb moment, but lots of years of experiences and understanding how close she wants to be to the impact. As a teacher, she was very ‘close’ to impact, at a tech company much broader away
Q: How do you approach wanting to have an impact at a company without a perfect ethical track record?
Ellie - hard to judge exactly what’s going on inside the company ‘behind closed doors’, even talking to employees is still a limited sample set - instead we should ask “Which companies are open to change?” instead of “Which companies have a good ethical culture?” Those companies that are open to change are easier to have an impact. It can be more satisfying than working in a place that’s already doing well ethically. It’s important to evaluate how open that company is to change. You can build the team, but only if the company is willing.
Addendum: Even within a company, it can vary from team-to-team. Some product teams could be very interested in responsible tech and others might not be -- but they could be in the same company. It can vary from the culture overall.
Amiee - PAI works with a lot of different tech companies, across all levels of maturity in the ethical practices. Is there any value in bringing them in to work with other partners? Is it helping them/industry, or is it better to welcome them in even if they don’t have the best ethical track record. It comes down to how much the company is open to change and how much you as an individual might be able to affect that change.
Danise - It's really up to you whether it lines up with your moral compass, and if you have the ability and privilege to pass, do that. There are signals that a company can give - like how many resources they are willing to put behind it. But the ‘signals’ could also be just PR, so ultimately make the best decision for yourself.
Q: Do you have any tips on how to actually affect change at a company you are already at?
Denise - storytelling and being authentic is really helpful. Being vulnerable and sharing your own journey and connection to the work. Working together - who do you have creating the products on those product teams and do we bring in stakeholders. Think about representation and who’s on the team, and co-creating while considering who you are designing for.
Aimee - once you are in a company or organization and you see an opportunity for change. You are likely not the only one and finding other people who are also interested in the same thing--building alliances within the company. You can work together to impact change.
Ellie - it doesn’t need to be a big change that you bring - it can just be a tiny thing. Raising a narrowly scoped flag can still have a positive impact and they can replicate through the organization. A small issue raised like that can have a big impact. You could also use allies throughout the company to help raise. Simple things can have a big impact.
Audience Question: What kinds of resources or support for tech workers would empower people at tech companies, especially those from traditionally marginalized communities, to speak out about harms at tech companies?
Ellie - there are often internal conferences, summits, etc. There are channels to bring up issues to the product teams. In smaller companies, you can just walk up to the CEO and tell them the problem, but in larger companies it can be harder and you might need to work through the channels the organization has.
Danise - If you have an ERGs, you could use those groups to help raise concerns with their advocacy powers; A really awesome manager can also help raise the issues to the right channels
